Conversation

Notices

1. Rysiekúr Memesson (rysiek@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 06:39:55 EDT Rysiekúr Memesson

   @pettter @HerraBRE @bjoern consider stuff like Twister -- a serverless social network built on top of BitTorrent and (wait for it) blockchain.

   There are no servers. Everybody runs their own stuff. The question becomes one of interface usability, not server management.

   Attack surface against a single user instance running locally? Hey, at least there is literally no way to phish it.

   1. Rysiekúr Memesson (rysiek@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 06:44:16 EDT Rysiekúr Memesson

      in reply to

      @pettter @HerraBRE @bjoern what completely flabbergasts me in this discussion is that instead of asking "how can we make this happen", most people seem to be looking for reasons this would never work.

      I feel this approach is not going to move us forward.

      I also feel that (quoting Eben Moglen, I think), the server must die to save the web. As long as we have servers, we will have centralization.

      Peer-to-peer, end-to-end principle (in the revolutionary, "serverless" sense) is what we need back.

      1. map witch ebel ⛧ 🧙‍♀️🗺️🌍 (ebel@moytura.org)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 08:34:04 EDT map witch ebel ⛧ 🧙‍♀️🗺️🌍

         in reply to

         @rysiek @pettter @HerraBRE @bjoern This sounds like "Counter-Anti-Dsintermediation".
         http://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Counter-Anti-Disintermediation

         1. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 09:42:09 EDT clacke

            in reply to
            @ebel @pettter @rysiek @herrabre @bjoern
            
            > Just as Systematic Colonization was developed to establish the capitalist mode of production in the colonies, anti-disintermediation was [developed] to colonize cyberspace. The basic strategy of anti-disintermediation was formulated by economists like Carl Shapiro and Hal R. Varian. Their influential book Information Rules encourages platform owners to pursue "lock-in." As Varian explains, "Since information technology products work in systems, switching any single product can cost users dearly. The lock-in that results from such switching costs confers a huge competitive advantage to firms that manage their installed base of customers effectively."
            
            [ . . . ]
            
            > Central to the counter-anti-disintermediationist design is the End-to-End principle: platforms must not depend on servers and admins, even when cooperatively run, but must, to the greatest degree possible, run on the computers of the platform’s users. The computational capacity and network access of the users’ own computers must collectively make up the resources of the platform, such that, on average, each new user adds net resources to the platform. By keeping the computational capacity in the hands of the users, we prevent the communication platform from becoming capital, and we prevent the users from being instrumentalized as an audience commodity.
            
            TL;DR: Kill the server-web as the backbone of personal communications.
            
            #ssb #p2p
      2. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 10:02:00 EDT clacke

         in reply to
         @rysiek @pettter @herrabre @bjoern
         
         > I also feel that (quoting Eben Moglen, I think),
         > the server must die to save the web.
         
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
         
         > As long as we have servers, we will have centralization.
         
         Why didn't Opera Unite[0] cause more of a commotion than it did? It never even made its way into the mainline browser before it petered out. They were really on to something there, even if solutions like it and PageKite insert a mediator to bridge the fact that the end-to-end internet is still dead.
         
         I really wish more ISPs did Teredo well, until they have native IPv6.
         
         [0] https://www.operasoftware.com/press/releases/general/opera-unite-reinvents-the-web
         1. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 10:04:21 EDT clacke

            in reply to
            Correction: Sounds like Unite was in mainline Opera 11 and 12 but deprecated in 12?
            
            http://help.opera.com/Windows/12.10/en/unite.html
            
            > From Opera 12, Opera Unite has been removed by default for new users and will eventually be phased out.
            1. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 10:06:53 EDT clacke

               in reply to
               Another correction: Unite was originally in a special Opera 10, but apparently it was in mainline Opera 10.10.
               
               https://tech.slashdot.org/story/09/11/23/1940206/opera-1010-released-includes-new-unite-tech
   2. MMN-o ✅⃠ (mmn@social.umeahackerspace.se)'s status on Wednesday, 04-Apr-2018 06:43:14 EDT MMN-o ✅⃠

      in reply to
      @rysiek
      Subject: IMPORTANT TWISTER UPDATE
      YOU MUST INSTALL THIS .EXE/.APK _NOW_ OR YOU ARE VULNERABLE TO COMPUTER VIRUSES. CLICK _HERE_ TO DOWNLOAD YOUR UPDATE