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1. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2017 01:32:30 EDT clacke
   Once again reminded of Hong Xiuquan, directly and indirectly responsible for the worst crimes against humanity in world history.
   
   In general the Great Men theory of history is complete bunk, but the Taiping Civil War was such a specific freak occurrence, such a confluence of factors, that I think it wouldn't have happened without this one man with specific influences and delusions.
   
   As a consequence of the civil war, the Qing dynasty's demise was hastened, leading to the successive revolutions in the beginning of the 20th century, the Japanese invasion of half of China and the rise of Mao.
   
   20-30 million died in the Taiping Civil War itself, and further dozens of millions died as a consequence of the 20th century civil wars, the Japanese invasion and the Communist takeover and rule.
   
   Without this one man, Qing China might have slowly reformed into a democratic state with a strong social ethos like Dr. Sun wanted it to be. The elements were there.
   1. augustus pugin (augustus@shitposter.club)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2017 01:39:49 EDT augustus pugin

      in reply to
      @clacke yat-sen sadly fell for the democracy meme that was imported from the US which wouldve sealed china's fate to unstoppable chaos and violent bloodshed as all democratic states inevitably tend to if commies didn't take over and jump the gun. there was but one man who could've saved china but mao pushed him to taiwan
      1. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2017 01:47:14 EDT clacke

         in reply to
         @augustus I think in the 20th century your choices were communist dictatorship, military dictatorship or relatively benevolent democracy. This century or the next, a minarchy, ancap society, or benevolent monarchy might be a thing, but back then it simply wasn't in the air.
         1. clacke (clacke@social.heldscal.la)'s status on Monday, 02-Oct-2017 01:58:10 EDT clacke

            in reply to
            @augustus I find the enlightened monarch concept interesting, but the few good examples I've seen are fictional[0][1], or were replaced with non-enlightened absolutism or parliamentary rule.
            
            [0] http://nightsdawn.wikia.com/wiki/Kulu_Kingdom
            [1] http://nightsdawn.wikia.com/wiki/Tranquility