Adam
It's weird how a certain group of liberals keep saying Trump's interactions with Putin are bad because Russia is the enemy and Putin is an enemy of the state. Except...neither of those things are actually true.
I mean, the whole thing is shady as hell and Russia is mostly bad news and an imperial power in its own right (or at least aspires to be one again), but it's not technically an enemy of America.
Michela
@ink_slinger To name a few things: Russia hacked both US' political parties systems and some voting machines, sabotaged their presidential election, invaded one US ally (Ukraine), and launched chemical weapons attacks on the soil of one of their closest allies (the UK). If that's not an enemy, then what is?? 🤔
Adam
@michela The same shit the US does to "allies" all around the world? Again, Russia is not good and does all kinds of shit. They are not an enemy and they are not at war with the US. I suspect they're even allies, on paper, though I don't know that for sure.
Oh god, now I sound like one of those assholes who says Russian imperialism is de facto good because it's a counter to American imperialism.
Michela
@ink_slinger 😄
Hmm. There appears to be a false equivalency. Also, that two countries are not presently engaged in physical military conflict, does not mean that they are not enemies -- that's a very low bar.
If I understand correctly, you are saying that Russia is not an enemy of the US, even though they manipulated the election for the US head of state, and undermined their democratic system?
Is that what you are saying?
Adam
@michela Yes. You don't maintain trade relations and joint military activity with your enemy. States are always working to undermine each other and empower themselves. Relations are incredibly strained and not exactly friendly, but the two countries are not enemies and none of this stuff is actually unusual. What's unusual is that Russia is so inept that they're being caught doing things in the open.
Should they be enemies? Perhaps. But I'm not going to call for another Cold War.
Michela
@ink_slinger That's crazy talk. You have done quite a bit of acrobatics in how you have defined "enemy" in this case. 🙂
Michela
@ink_slinger
Regardless of how you or I define the word, it is quite clear that the democrats calling Russia an enemy can be justified.
It is apparently not a word you would use, yet their characterisation of Russia as an enemy is far from hyperbolic. It is, in fact quite reasonable. This, even if we were to accept your view, yet allow for others to have their own well thought through and substantiated positions.
Adam
@michela Enemy, in diplomatic and political terms, has a specific meaning. I've done no acrobatics. What have I said that is "crazy?"
Frankly, hostilities between the US and Russia are making the world a more dangerous place. The rhetoric coming from many liberal corners is not helping. Again, Russia is doing many horrible things, but it is arguably no worse than the USA. Russophobia helps no one.
Michela
@ink_slinger Do you have a source for your claim that the word enemy has a specific meaning in this case. It sounds to me that we're now on some sort of philosophical hair-splitting on the meaning of the word.
My point is that, anyone who characterises Russia as an enemy is well justified, even if others don't agree on what the meaning of the word enemy is (?!), it's close enough.
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