Conversation

Notices

1. Laura Ritchie (lauraritchie@mastodon.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Mar-2019 10:18:07 EST Laura Ritchie

   More on the livestreaming dilemma...

   I need to have the option of multiple participants AT THE SAME TIME - like playing in a band. So maybe the keyboard and drums are in one place (live) and the sax player joins from another country via a link.

   Does anyone know of a platform that lets you do that - instead of like skype/zoom/hangouts where it changes to whoever is talking and features their image & sound?

   ...and the concert will be 24 hrs. long.

   #AmAsking #Tech #Question #advice please

   1. Bob Jonkman (bobjonkman@gs.jonkman.ca)'s status on Monday, 04-Mar-2019 02:58:14 EST Bob Jonkman

      in reply to
      Performing music together over an Internet connection is next to impossible if there is *any* lag at all. Typically, the lag is caused by short 10-50 millisecond delays for every router hop, at minimum one hop from you to your ISP, another from ISP to Internet Exchange Point (IXP), IXP to my ISP, and a fourth from my ISP to my computer. When you play the drum I hear your drumbeat 40-200 milliseconds after you play it. When I play a note on the piano you'll hear it 40-200 ms after I play it, or 80-400 ms after you've played your drumbeat. And our friend @StrangeAttractor will hear your drumbeat and my piano out-of-sync by 40-200 ms; if she plays her guitar synced to my piano you'll hear that 120-600 ms after you've played your drumbeat.
      
      There was a really cool commercial by Bell some 10 years ago that showed people playing together over their Internet connection; sadly it was only movie magic and no more realistic than flying through the air with a cape.
      1. Bob Jonkman (bobjonkman@gs.jonkman.ca)'s status on Monday, 04-Mar-2019 03:13:18 EST Bob Jonkman

         in reply to
         The solution would be to have an analogue connection from end-to-end. But today, even analogue phones are connected to digital switching networks, so you can't even use ordinary landline phones and expect to get no delay. You can get "leased lines" from the phone companies that are analogue end-to-end, but leasing a tuned circuit that supports audio fidelity (ie. a 56 kHz leased line) will probably cost hundreds of dollars a month. Last time I saw an equalized analogue leased line was in 1980 when I worked at a radio station. It's possible analogue-only leased lines don't even exist any more. /cc @StrangeAttractor @LauraRitchie
         1. Laura Ritchie (lauraritchie@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Mar-2019 04:01:05 EST Laura Ritchie

            in reply to

            @bobjonkman @strangeattractor as it’s a one-day charity concert event I’m hoping companies may be willing to donate services as sponsorship

         2. Laura Ritchie (lauraritchie@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Mar-2019 04:01:46 EST Laura Ritchie

            in reply to

            @bobjonkman @strangeattractor I’ll look into the phone lines, thank you 😊

      2. Laura Ritchie (lauraritchie@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 04-Mar-2019 03:29:04 EST Laura Ritchie

         in reply to

         @bobjonkman @strangeattractor what if they instead of playing reactively everyone played to a world clock?

         - people could always record their contributions and video magic can be done with screens in a room and then the one room is streamed.

         1. Bob Jonkman (bobjonkman@gs.jonkman.ca)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2019 01:23:18 EST Bob Jonkman

            in reply to
            If you have an external clock that's transmitted exclusively over an analogue channel, then everyone would hear the beats at the same time (barring speed-of-light transmission times, which is really only a factor if the transmission uses geosynchronous satellites). But if there is any digital transmission then you're back to the same problem. Not everyone will be the same number of router hops from the source, so with a digitally transmitted clock players may hear the beats at different times. If not, then it's fine for each player playing by themselves -- but they won't be able to hear each other (which may make playing as an ensemble difficult; I don't know, I'm no musician). And also, you're left with the problem of transmitting the music from each player -- if it gets transmitted over a digital channel then you have the "different lag from different router hops" problem all over again, and you'll hear the different lags from each player. The human ear is a marvellous instrument, and very intolerant of sounds being out-of-sync.
            1. Laura Ritchie (lauraritchie@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2019 06:26:42 EST Laura Ritchie

               in reply to

               @bobjonkman this is sort of what I have come to think.

               1. external clock.
               2. Simple Facetime with tiles people to allow multiple participants at once (shown through a giant TV in the room)
               3. Other people who might send in recordings of them to play at certain times (also shown through a giant TV & speakers
               4. Live people

               I have a (roughly) broadcast quality camera to use for the live streaming of the room.

               now to do testing... 1/2

               1. Laura Ritchie (lauraritchie@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 07-Mar-2019 06:29:20 EST Laura Ritchie

                  in reply to

                  @bobjonkman most musicians who would be streaming in have some (if not extensive) experience playing session work - and then you are used to the click as opposed to having the real feel of everyone with you, so I think the external clock is a realistic thing to use. -and the type of music being played allows for some freedom in timing, so I am hopeful!

                  Ideas swimming, and forming shapes. 2/2