Jonkman Microblog
  • Login
Show Navigation
  • Public

    • Public
    • Network
    • Groups
    • Popular
    • People

Conversation

Notices

  1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:21:10 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch

    i understand that people don't like it when people defend software like screen or vim or emacs or excel or whatever but like

    there are two paradigms of teaching users how to use software

    one is to make a self-consistent interface and document it extremely thoroughly and surface that documentation to the user immediately

    the other is to just drop them on the beach with a few signposts and abandon them to fuck around

    the problem is that the second way is really common and totally fucks users over

    In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:21:10 EDT from cybre.space permalink
    1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:23:54 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
      in reply to

      and people talk a lot of shit about how "open source software isn't user friendly" and like... there _are_ real problems with the way people (don't) talk about UX in foss projects

      but "the interface is not instantly familiar to me" is not that problem because that's not a goal you can ever reach for more than a tiny tiny group of people

      see, e.g., the simple lack of a back button in iOS / reliance on implicit "back" actions in Android flummoxing users switching/using other peoples' phones

      In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:23:54 EDT from cybre.space permalink
      1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:26:38 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
        in reply to

        and honestly i /do/ think vim is a good example of this: if you open it (without specifying a file) it tells you the basic commands you need to know, including how to quit, and points you towards the comprehensive documentation

        in fact the whole concept of having a unified software manual system on a machine is a /really good idea/ and it's unfortunate that a universal standard like man for gui programs doesn't exist

        but that is inherently counterproductive if you want to exploit your users

        In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:26:38 EDT from cybre.space permalink
        1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:30:19 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
          in reply to

          and i don't just say this out of "oh people who don't use the command line are ~~scrubs~~ who don't understand how ~~real~~ computers work"

          people have been systematically denied access to the knowledge that would let them use the expensive and miraculous computing devices they have to the fullest extent possible

          this is a /choice/ that software developers continue to make and we have to /stop/

          management will not approve and frankly they can fuck off. budget time for an /actual manual/

          In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:30:19 EDT from cybre.space permalink
          1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:32:05 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
            in reply to

            yes i mean manuals for mobile apps, yes i mean manuals for your webapp

            the big thing here is:

            - if your software /doesn't/ need a manual, it's not software, it's a document.

            - if your software does real computational work that justifies its existence as software, it requires a manual.

            In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:32:05 EDT from cybre.space permalink
            1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:35:09 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
              in reply to

              there is a reason that old command line FOSS is the only place we really see any of this, even a little bit, and that's because it's the only place where large-scale software gets developed and maintained over the long term with no profit motive

              nobody is selling vim, they're just using it

              and they want it to be /good/

              In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 12:35:09 EDT from cybre.space permalink
            2. Chris (brainblasted@social.libre.fi)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 13:15:23 EDT Chris Chris
              in reply to
              @tindall thanks for this thread! I had been thinking about whether or not I should make help pages for my apps, and this convinced me.
              In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 13:15:23 EDT from social.libre.fi permalink
              1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 13:16:01 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
                in reply to

                @brainblasted I'm glad! And, thank _you_, for being a software developer who like, cares :)

                In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 13:16:01 EDT from cybre.space permalink
                1. Chris (brainblasted@social.libre.fi)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 13:23:54 EDT Chris Chris
                  in reply to

                  @tindall no prob :) Is it okay if I link to this thread on my tracking issue?

                  In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 13:23:54 EDT from social.libre.fi permalink
                  1. Chris (brainblasted@social.libre.fi)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 22:24:00 EDT Chris Chris
                    in reply to

                    @tindall created: https://gitlab.gnome.org/BrainBlasted/Social/issues/16

                    In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 22:24:00 EDT from social.libre.fi permalink

                    Attachments

                    1. Sign in
                      from GitLab
                      Welcome to GNOME’s integrated development platform, powered by GitLab
                    1. Nora, Tech Witch (tindall@cybre.space)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 22:33:32 EDT Nora, Tech Witch Nora, Tech Witch
                      in reply to

                      @brainblasted Heck yeah! Once I'm done with GSoC I'll help out for sure :)

                      In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 22:33:32 EDT from cybre.space permalink
                      1. Chris (brainblasted@social.libre.fi)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 22:34:35 EDT Chris Chris
                        in reply to

                        @tindall Awesome :)

                        In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 22:34:35 EDT from social.libre.fi permalink
        2. Federico Mena Quintero (federicomena@mstdn.mx)'s status on Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 14:58:30 EDT Federico Mena Quintero Federico Mena Quintero
          in reply to

          @tindall Waaaaay back in the day, I really appreciated software like Turbo Pascal 6 or Corel Draw 3 where hitting F1 anywhere brought up context-sensitive help. *ANYWHERE*, and it took you to the help page for *exactly* the place in the program you were in at that time.

          There was even small tutorials for little workflows in the contextual help. It was wonderful.

          In conversation Thursday, 15-Aug-2019 14:58:30 EDT from mstdn.mx permalink
  • Help
  • About
  • FAQ
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • Source
  • Version
  • Contact

Jonkman Microblog is a social network, courtesy of SOBAC Microcomputer Services. It runs on GNU social, version 1.2.0-beta5, available under the GNU Affero General Public License.

Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 All Jonkman Microblog content and data are available under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license.

Switch to desktop site layout.