Conversation

Notices

1. Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 02-May-2021 10:19:46 EDT Alexandre Oliva
   the greatest challenge of automation for a capitalist economy is that machines don't produce surplus value, only human labor does
   1. Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 02-May-2021 11:58:54 EDT Alexandre Oliva

      in reply to
      sorry about the dupes. I was getting errors.
      
      elaborating on the threats of automation. it's interesting how big capital turns things over, and uses the threat of full automation against workers for them to accept lower pay and worse conditions. too bad most workers don't realize that this is a bluff.
   2. Bob Jonkman (bobjonkman@gs.jonkman.ca)'s status on Sunday, 02-May-2021 16:50:43 EDT Bob Jonkman

      in reply to
      But human labour only produces surplus value when it's being exploited. If humans are paid a fair value for their labour then there is no "surplus", ie. no profit for the corporate owners. This is why I favour worker-owned co-operatives instead of capitalist-owned corporations.
      1. Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 02-May-2021 18:27:37 EDT Alexandre Oliva

         in reply to
         determining fair value is the issue. selling one's labor force at market value does not make it equal to the produced value, but rather equal to living + training = reproduction costs = wages. the surplus is the difference between produced value and wages
         
         cooperatives are great for workers because they enable workers to keep the surplus value, avoiding this form of exploitation