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1. Bob Mottram (bob@social.freedombone.net)'s status on Sunday, 17-Dec-2017 13:33:27 EST Bob Mottram
   @staticsafe As soon as you have a CoC you then have a question of enforcement. Especially in small groups it's often the case that nobody wants to be a bouncer or the moralizing finger wagger passing judgement.
   
   I think CoCs are more relevant to larger projects in which peer pressure alone isn't enough to enforce some norms.
   1. mangeurdenuage (mangeurdenuage@loadaverage.org)'s status on Sunday, 17-Dec-2017 15:35:29 EST mangeurdenuage

      in reply to
      @staticsafe
      --But when you explicitly mention that you don't have a code of conduct, you are signalling something, and not a good thing at that.--
      Or maybe they realized that they have no real control over what one does, a CoC is not magical it as no divine will that can stop or change someone from doing something bad (or even good), it's exactly the same thing has the law, one can choose to respect it or not, to choose if it's just or unjust.
      
      @bob
      --I think CoCs are more relevant to larger projects in which peer pressure alone isn't enough to enforce some norms. --
      From my view it's still the same problem if there is no CoC, and someone behaves like a dick and bothers some people, he gets kicked. If there is a CoC, the same guy can still behave like a dick and still gets kicked. But now, he not only was a dick, but also violated the CoC, so he was, with the same behaviour, more of a dick than before. Which tends to bother people more.
      CoC can also try to enforce laws that are already there, it also tries to avoid human management via more liberticide rules (thus removing/minimizing the responsibilities from those who have to take a decision/act) which is something absurd because only people can resolves people problem, what larger projects needs isn't a CoC or other rules it's people who are either very comprehensive/pacifist with each other or someone specialized in HR/human relations this is of course if you have enough volunteers or money, and or patience, the other working solution is to look at how linus manages his kernel, he's not often friendly and tells people to fuck off when needed but it works.
      
      In the end it's always the same, it depends on our decisions/reactions.
      1. Bob Mottram (bob@social.freedombone.net)'s status on Sunday, 17-Dec-2017 15:44:51 EST Bob Mottram

         in reply to
         @mangeurdenuage @staticsafe There is also the Noisebridge observation that having a vague CoC, such as "Be excellent to each other" may be the best because if you try to devise a highly elaborate set of rules the sociopaths will always find ways to game them - obeying the letter but not the spirit of the rules.
         1. mangeurdenuage (mangeurdenuage@loadaverage.org)'s status on Sunday, 17-Dec-2017 15:51:41 EST mangeurdenuage

            in reply to
            --beying the letter but not the spirit of the rules. --
            Indeed.