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Notices by tekk (tekk@social.tekk.in), page 11
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@cereal The united states has a GDP per capita of $60k/yr. $60k/yr isn't enough to live on in the midlde of NYC or in SF, but that's a pretty comfortable living in say 99.99999% of the country.
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@cereal No, I'm drawing an analogy with a system with which we have some basic familiarity. If you don't think that the comparison is apt we can go from there, though, how is a capitalist who paid money once to buy a factory to make workers work in there and extract a profit fundamentally different from a baron whose great grandfather killed a dude in a battle once and was given a piece of land on which to make serf work so that he can extract a profit?
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@cereal Geting there, yeah. People like building things, and people like building things to build things. We have the industrial capacity to feed, clothe, and house everyone but capitalism routes it inefficiently, that is, all to the capitalist class.
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@cereal To draw an earlier comparison: I'm a serf and you're a baron. I work the land all year and you own the land, so I have to pay a portion of my crop to you every year. Why? Becuase you own the land. Why do I need a baron to own the land that I work? Well because the system in place says I need one.
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@cereal What value did you add? You provided access to the things that require capital to have access to, but those things need capital to access them because capitalism says they need capital to access them; it's circular and there to justify capitalists.
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@cereal As the factory owner, you're taking the thing that they just made, paying them a fraction of the value they added to the product, and saying that it's yours and they have no right to it because they already received their compensation. It's yours now, because othewise you couldn't sell it.
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Remember kids, if you *have* to touch the prong on an electrical outlet, touch the *left* prong
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@cereal You can sell the product of your own labor. The complaint is the selling of other peoples' labor claiming it your own. Similarly, if you're sending out emails from your office in your factory, that's not a problem. The problem is you claiming the workers' work is your own.
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@cereal I'm not evading. It's your own property 2 ways, 1: you're maintaining it and using it for your house, and 2: it's the product of your own labor to begin with. You did say that you built the house, right?
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@cereal Then feel free to keep the machine around. Personal vs private property isn't an inherent property of an object. I own a cast iron pan, it's personal property: I use it myself, for cooking my own food. If I were a restaurant owner and the pan was there so that I can convince some chef to cook for less than the value he produces, it's private property.
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@cereal No. 1: you live there and you use your office there. 2: you built the damn house, it's the product of your own labor.
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@cereal See further on. The widget machine is useless to you unless you can somehow force someone else to use it and then somehow convince them that the value of their work is less than the value of their work. This somehow is the capitalist system these days, before it was feudalism if we're talking about Europe, etc.
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@cereal I'm using "use" in a bit broader sense than "I'm sitting in my car right now". Private property exists only to make a profit, if a person owns it for other reasons, it generally falls under personal property. There are weird corner cases (what about the Dale's Dead Bug van?) but that's my general rule.
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@cereal Because in one case you make meaningful use of it. Say you own a factory. That factory will have a widget machine. That widget machine is useless to you. The only thing which makes the widget machine valuable is the fact that you and society can force someone to work the widget machine for you and receive in compensation less than the value (in terms of money) of what they produced.
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@lwflouisa No project is run like that. Now if someone totally disagrees they could fork your project and have nothing to do with you.
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@lwflouisa No?
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Also this thread blew up on me last night while I was sleeping, sorry about that.
tekk
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