Notices by Becka Sutton (shutsumon@tootplanet.space), page 20

@InspectorCaracal @zatnosk @Anke @DialMforMara @aldersprig yeah, I donn't know anyone who pronounces pie as pea

@zatnosk @InspectorCaracal @Anke @DialMforMara @aldersprig to rhyme with "hey"

@zatnosk @InspectorCaracal @Anke @DialMforMara @aldersprig there are places where pies is pronounced peys

@DialMforMara people thought mass media had killed dialects but after a period of flattening they seem to have started diverging again

@DialMforMara oh definitely... But for a good chunk of brits the bath vowel is different from both... It is kinda ah... Like the end of car in non-rhotic accents (hence northerners without the split wailing that there is no r in bath)

@aldersprig immediate thought "That looks like the Northern Cities vowel shift"

*googles a map of affected area*

*sees big red dot atop Rochester*

*yep, Northern Cities vowel shift*

Do these people not know how flipping unstable English vowels are?

(They probably don't because we're so used to the mishmash that we basically ignore the vowels unless it's something like the bath-trap split where not having the split is something of a marker of class pride in Northern England)

IPA transcription (with sound files if online for people who don't know IPA) is probably better.

Why is it so many language learning guides start with phonetic guides that are basically

"the a in bath not face"

me: wait where is the writer from? Do they have the trap-bath split. Oh gosh if they are from certain parts of the US that might even be closer to some sort of o...

And it goes on for the rest of the list by the end of which I still don't know how the vowels are actually pronounced.

*facepalm*

@DialMforMara I am almost ready to dump the subjunctive but I'm not really sure there's another mood that works for "should *verb*" (the mood I'm calling subjunctive specifically codes suggestions and things that should be done without being orders - it doesn't encode doubt... I think doubt will be lexical - perhaps as an adverb or particle). Seriously

I have also realised my opative is actually a desiderative but that's a small thing

At least I know my Imperitive is an imperitive

@Feufochmar thanks

@Feufochmar thanks

Example from my conlang (if what I'm calling the subjunctive is even the subjunctive it may be some other irrealis mood and I'm confused):

Pä dati (present indicative simple) = I go

Pä datiwo (present subjunctive simple) = I should go (I think?)

Pä datima (past indicative simple) = I went

Pä datiwoma (past subjunctive simple) = I should have gone (again I think).

I also have future tense and progressive aspect but that's enough to illustrate me wondering if I even know what I'm doing

The subjunctive confuses me... I mean I sort of get it in English in that I understand sentences that use it but it's lexical in English . Once you make it morphological I'm all "uh" especially once we leave the present tense.

@someonetellmetosleep and confusing...

Okay Aspects... simple and progressive... still tempted to do something with telicity but in #conlanging one needs to be careful of stuffing things in just because they are shiny

@InspectorCaracal I think it's supposed to be the subjunctive (though I don't think it's quite right if it is)... but why would you use the subjunctive there in English? (I can imagine another language using the subjunctive there in order to soften it)

@InspectorCaracal I mean any language where you had to do that would probably have verb morphology for it instead of having to use multiple auxilaries in a row

@InspectorCaracal I know, but he says sentances like that come up in scripts a lot for him to translate into the relavent conlang a lot. He's the dude who created Dothraki and Valyrian for GoT and also various alien languages for some SF shows. So I suspect such obnoxious constructions are the writers trying to make their aliens sound alien in the subtitles.

Also he's right that:

"If you would have had to have asked me first, I would have been in a position to say 'no'."

would be a nightmare sentence to translate but that's because it's a nightmare sentence. I know what it means but my brain is aching trying to parse it...

For refernce this is the book I'm reading https://www.indiebound.org/book/9780143126461

I'm not sure which David Peterson hates more verbs or onions...