Notices by Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz), page 97

@clacke
> If you can't even issue your debt in your own currency, you're just a normal business with an unusual business model.

This is definitely true for local government in #NZ(city, district, and regional councils). If it's true for central governments, it has disturbing implications for human-scale government, and democracy in general.
@msh

@clacke these arguments are logical, but I suspect that logic is sound only within a framework of neo-classical assumptions (for example that capital can flow globally with no cross-border friction). I'm hoping we can scare up someone who knows much more about #MMT than I do, who can point out which of these assumptions are wrong, and how, and how MMT describes the international financial situation.
@msh

@noorul put it this way. GNOME 2.0 used to run fine on second-hand computers in the mid-2000s. These days I wouldn't even try to run GNOME 3.0 on a computer older than about 3 years.

@z428 well, there's basically two approaches. 1) assume that people are sheep, and try to work around their irresolvable ignorance, 2) take every opportunity to educate people about geek jargon, and the infostructure of the net. This includes doing one's best to use the correct terms for things, and being willing to explain them in whatever detail is requested. I sympathize with option 1), but I tend to go with option 2) ;-)

@z428 Apple has a massive marketing budget and supply chain, which they use to make sure iThings continue to be *perceived* as the go-to tool for hipster "creatives", regardless of their actual technical merits (or lack thereof), and that they are always in people's faces. This is what we're up against. The remaining technical problems can be easily solved if we can solve the perception and supply problems.
@alcinnz

@z428 right, but you're not really describing *software* problems, so much as hardware/ software *configuration problems, which are a lot more complicated to fix. I suspect it's possible to build a device like what you describe with existing tech; generic tablet hardware from Shenzhen, #PureOS, and touchscreen versions of #GIMP, #Inkscape etc. But how would you get it into designers' hands?
@alcinnz

@neoncipher OK. When did you run the test, and which version of each DE did you use?
@RandomDamage @tootbrute

@neoncipher definitely let me know when you do and flick me a link, I'd love to watch your videos on DE resource use. As you can tell, it's a subject I'm very curious about :)

@neoncipher but if you compare LXDE circa 2013 with Mate circa 2013, LXDE is very limited (I tested on Peppermint). It never hit the sweet spot for my purposes. If I can put up with a DE as limited as LXDE, I'll go all the way and use OpenBox. If I want a full-featured DE, I'll use Mate, for a similar resource cost. I haven't tried LXQT, but since Razor-qt used *heaps* more RAM than Mate, and more than XFCE, it didn't really qualify as a lightweight DE.
@RandomDamage @tootbrute

@neoncipher Oops! You're right, my source did show LXDE using less RAM than Mate, but not by much. Although as I said in my blog piece, those figures were from 2013, and YMMV depending on exactly which version of each DE you test, which distro you're testing it on and which version, and so on.
@RandomDamage @tootbrute

@neoncipher I can't watch videos on YT from China. Do you have your videos on a #PeerTube instances yet?
@RandomDamage @tootbrute

@noorul that graph was taken from this blog piece:
https://l3net.wordpress.com/2013/03/17/a-memory-comparison-of-light-linux-desktops/

@noorul in 20123 only Unity and KDE used more RAM while idle than GNOME 3.0. According to the same graph, XFCE, used about twice as much RAM as Mate, and only slightly less than Cinammon.
https://l3net.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/cmp-all4.png?w=625&h=617

@FarhanYusufzai no worries. Nice to meet you ;) Now that I'm confident you are discussing in good faith, I look forward to continuing a robust debate with you.

@FarhanYusufzai Playstation or MacOS are distributions of BSD. This is a separate issue. There is still a generic name for the family of OS, and that name gives credit to the project that lead the charge in making sure a libre version of AT&T UNIX could exist; BSD.

@FarhanYusufzai I think this argument fails to distinguish between the GNU *tools* and the GNU *Project*. It's the GNU Project that's referred to when we say "GNU/Linux". #GNOME is part of the GNU Project. The GNU #GPL is part of the GNU Project. The vision that inspired Linus to start working on his kernel was the GNU Project vision. That's why I say there would be no Linux without GNU.
https://fossbytes.com/linus-torvaldss-famous-email-first-linux-announcement/

@FarhanYusufzai good to know :) To balance things up, let me offer some unsolicited advice. First impressions count, *especially* online. When you interact with someone for the first time, it's more effective to use a more conciliatory tone, and show that you are making an effort to see things from their point of view.

Māori make up about 15% of the population in #Aotearoa (#NZ). According to this podcast, 1% of small businesses in Aotearoa are owned by Māori people:
http://seeds.libsyn.com/maori-perspectives-on-social-enterprise-with-kaye-maree-dunn-cain-kerehoma-and-chanelle-armstrong

@neoncipher I don't expect to need a lightweight DE, especially if I upgrade the hard drive to an SSD. If my 32-bit netbook can run Mate fine with 2GB RAM, I expect a lot more from a MacBook the same age.

@RandomDamage according to the research I've looked at, Mate uses less resources than #LXDE, which isn't being developed since it merged with #RazorQT to create #LXQT. It uses *much* less than #XFCE, which has a reputation as a light DE, but I think that stopped being true a long time ago (unless you're comparing it to bloatware like #Unity, #KDE or #GNOME).
https://www.coactivate.org/projects/disintermedia/blog/2018/04/16/choosing-which-desktop-environment-to-use-with-gnu-linux/
@tootbrute