Notices by mike_hales 💔*!?¿* (mikehales@social.coop), page 2

@bhaugen ‘organise something cooperative’?
Yep. That’s the sort of thing I was proposing with my ‘core list’ of shared concerns in our broad discussion some months back. I think it will involve expanding into other tools/platforms - wiki/fedwiki maybe. A repo of commoned coop knowhow. So not a coop of coops perhaps (since individuals would participate too) but a cultural commons. One of the things DisCO is built for.
@Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

2of 2 The key item is Pelle Ehn’s PhD 1988 thesis/book drawing on 20 years politicised design practice in Denmark Sweden Norway. It cross fertilised in 90s with US corporate anthropology, interaction design (and fading of trade union drivers) as cooperation tech became generic. There’s now a Handbook of Participatory Design. Samples of all these are here
https://cloud.owncube.com/s/ibXFSgY9AbKYrXb
Ehn’s book is in that folder, official posting is here
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/273337040_Work-Oriented_Design_of_Computer_Artifacts

Recently I’m referring back to a tradition of design that may be unfamiliar to cooperators & hackers here. So some references. Scandinavian 80s/90s tradition of work oriented design of computer artefacts, and a collective resource tradition of codesign with labour unions. From days before P2P code hacking, web apps & digitally mediated organisation, invites remixing in today’s coop practice. Tool notions, coproduction principle and weaving of tech, theorising and democracy are valuable. 1of2

@Matt_Noyes 3of3
Yes labour intensive, only for significant initiatives. No not practicable for admin in a loose coupled community with small things being frequent. But I am unsure how realistic the expectation of formal group process is, or how many ppl in fact subscribe to the model. I respect that it’s de rigeur w some but believe this to be a temperament ’bubble’ rather than a matter of ’science’. And that’s OK but not guaranteed to work.
@michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@Matt_Noyes 2of3
So
a) I wouldn’t expect this personal thing to weigh much in the vote. But wonder how many social.coop ppl may be in my ‘camp’?
b) When I want to move something significant in the world I approach it as a matter of skilled teaming, with others more ‘groupish’, oriented to accommodation across differences, and we do a lot of diverse ’touching base’. The team does the work, case by case. Builds multi perspective (= consensus??)
@michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@Matt_Noyes 1of3
Responding here not loomio so as to be more lightweight. I find I don’t have much enthusiasm for formal group ‘democratic’ process. I’m happy to be guided thro by a skilled facilitator with goodwill, but have reluctance to internalise and be bound by formal group process of any kind, for any purpose. That’s just temperament - not a large group person, a pair or trio person, responding to actual dynamics of that actual pairing.
@michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti

@Matt_Noyes Is there an audio track in the Prezi presentation? I hear none but assumed there must be, bcos otherwise I couldn't tell what story it was telling!
@LeoSammallahti @michel_slm @Graham_Mitchell @Steve @ntnsndr @mattcropp

@Matt_Noyes I started to watch but had to leave off. Hope to finish watching - and feed back. Looks vivid. Perhaps rather full, I hadn’t reckoned on needing to take so much in, visuals and narrative? The rhythms of subtitles and visual edits are a bit at odds with each other, making viewing harder work? @michaelafisher

@Matt_Noyes Yep. This is the sort of thing I would take a stab at - if I had time. But just now I’m snowed. Would like to see one.
@LeoSammallahti @michel_slm @Graham_Mitchell @Steve @ntnsndr @mattcropp

The half-arsed argument about 'privacy' and data analytics
>Supporters of the National Security Agency inevitably defend its sweeping collection of phone and Internet records on the ground that it is only collecting so-called “metadata” — who you call, when you call, how long you talk. Since this does not include the actual content of the communications, the threat to privacy is said to be negligible.

The military says: "We kill people based on metadata."
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2014/05/10/we-kill-people-based-metadata/

@kavbojka
This is half-formed work in progress, but potentially more concrete than the link I offered earlier, approaching questions of activist 'literacy' and the practice of 'formacion' = cultivation of the same
http://conviv-cluster.federated.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/conviv---a-cluster-of-formacion-coops/view/1-frame/view/living-economy/view/being-alive-to-matters-of-the-heart
@nicksellen

@kavbojka This 'performative' is core ground for activists, deeply changed from modern-colonial aesthetic? See §3 Aesthetic landscape in this lineup
http://foprop.federated.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/forces-of-production-relations-of-production/view/the-foprop-weave/view/weft---three-landscapes-of-material-existence/view/weft-3---aesthetic-landscape/view/warp---four-zones-of-proximity-and-reach
Also zone ¿1 In-here, in <Warp Four zones>.
The pivotal activist shift is (?) from out-there to in-here, as a zone of engagement, skill and development (eg supremacy and Selfing-Othering as gut responses). Without losing sight for a moment of zones ¿2 ¿3 ¿4, and landscapes §1 §2. If that ain't postmodern intersectional . . ?

@kavbojka
> lives and bodies are materially entangled with the environment, agentially inseparable from nonhuman processes, then should we not take into account the ways we ourselves are being acted upon by the materials/tools in and around us?
Isn’t that why folks like us are engaged eg in social.coop with digital tools? Not death of activism but an evolution into sensitive, pluriversal waters.
> we must go in the performative distance where the otherwise swirls
Nope, we wrestle it right here

@LeoSammallahti
Blue collar workers, college graduates, the real economy, arms conversion . .
http://4-history.federated.wiki/view/welcome-visitors/view/4-history---organic-intellectuals/view/lucas-aerospace-stewards-human-centred-design
One reason the Left lost elections is that the British Labour government refused to support this visionary act of commons counter-planning by blue and white-collar workers, piecing together ALL of their knowledge, in their fight with a transnational aerospace corporation for jobs.

@curufuin
I don't think that 'analytics for the people' will necessarily drive *anything* in automatic. closed-loop mode. We don't basically need superfast robots to make a superfast buck, like the derivatives traders or intenet advertisers do. Basically, emergent pattern could be displayed to those whose actions are being analysed, for them to do something about, or not, as the choice might be. A looking glass not a one-way mirror. A piece of the self-government jigsaw.
@Anarkat

@amsomniac
'The analytics mindset' of silicon valley oligarchs, alt-right and security services surely is a problem. But complex systems with emergent form are real, and seems to me it will be good if 'we' can be tooled up to observe the emergent pattern of our own activity in the large. Their activity too! Just like statistics have been double edged for several generations (lies, damn lies etc) analytics are double edged.
@Anarkat

@yala
In fedwiki matrix I note
>a new set of metaphores to describe wiki, the federation, pages and pods. The federation is now a library for us, a site/a wiki represents a notebook, pages are sheets in our translation, and a pod acts a place for bookbinding.

That's nice. Although, I wonder if more than bookbinding will go on in the pod? Place for co-authoring, co-translating . . . plus book-design/layout/bookbinding? Whatever, nice translation.

I do mean to get to podding before too long.

@yala
Hey! Thanks to your clue on Assets I now can properly display images at last, using html plugins instead of dropping them into a factory 😀 And I stole html code from npl.wiki
http://mhresources.federated.wiki/mh-image-code-snippets.html

Full text search in v0.21.0 is good to have - although I can see myself sometimes preferring old-fashioned reference-search. Also, full text search doesn't seem to find absolutely everything in the neighborhood.

@yala Thanks for this assets tip. And great news about v0.21.0. Thanks.