Notices by mike_hales 💔*!?¿* (mikehales@social.coop)

@richdecibels I feel "There's nobody here but us chickens". And all the goodness/ peace/ beauty/ etc is for us to find and cultivate, right here, in our threescore-and-ten. Nothing 'beyond'. That lovely stuff is in a bundle, right next to all the malice/ aggression/ ugliness/ etc that we (species 'sapiens') continually act out. So it's a matter of some delicacy? We can do it. But we're making a very late start.

@GuerillaOntologist But I could be a little flaky, only sometimes being free to join in. Would be interested to know, though, how it is, working in the backwoods 😉

@emi @GuerillaOntologist This is the toot
https://social.coop/@GuerillaOntologist/103727495378633539

@anaulin
>mutual understanding and alignment . . not quite the same as consensus
👍
@Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @johnkuti @SocialCoop

@Matt_Noyes
> other types of discussion
Uh huh. But maybe, *collaboration*? Back again, to the question: what is our core common project here? Among the "small number of active members"?
@anaulin @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @johnkuti @SocialCoop

@anaulin
I do suspect that
>long consensus-seeking conversations
(or actually, collaborations, and protracted mutual 'labours of valuing'?) may be the only way generate a consensus that 'binds' in the face of other (tacit) bonds. The prior bonds that existed 'in the first place', 'in society' - class, colour, gender, temperament, etc etc - are hard to match with token process?
@Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @johnkuti @SocialCoop

@Matt_Noyes
I don't hold any sense that "thou shalt" behaviour is going on here! I just don't believe that formal processes for consensus - or a formal consensus result, for that matter - are necessarily worth the labour that they exact from participants, or can in fact be expected to be binding. I'm not experienced in this kind of practice (no surprises there!) but have a hunch straw polls might be somewhere around the optimum.
@michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti @SocialCoop

@Matt_Noyes
I broke out of Loomio into Mastodon bcos I wanted to be more informal, to chat and extend rather than to DEBATE in a formal polis/demos, formal for/against kind of way. I guess I don’t believe in binding decisions (as distinct from straw polls), certainly, not in loosely bonded collectives. And don’t wish to contribute to expectations of that kind of process. So here I am, in Mastodon 😉
@michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti @SocialCoop

A quick straw poll on Illich

Is the perspective of Ivan Illich familiar to you, on 'tools' and the difference between 'industrial' and 'convivial' tools?

[ ] Not familiar at all
[ ] It vaguely rings a bell
[ ] I broadly get the pictur
[ ] It's very familiar to me

@michaelafisher I like the Pinafore interface. Not an app, runs in the browser. A clean, single-pane interface.
https://pinafore.social/
As a bonus, also runs in the sidebar of Firefox.
I tried tootdon before and like Pinafore better.

@michaelafisher @Matt_Noyes
This discussion is evolving. Good :)

I'll emphasise @bhaugen
> as soon as possible we should find a situation to collaborate in

What might this be? A live situation? A development situation - eg a repo of coop knowhow?

The defacto live situation is maintaining the Mastodon instance and moderating the toot traffic. That's work undertaken by just two small 1st-circles. What would 2nd-circle ppl do?
@elplatt @emi @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @SocialCoop @richdecibels

Does anyone feel like experimenting with chat-pad? Here is a pad that's started
https://chat-pad.glitch.me/#&togetherjs=neUGBrC731

@write_as Triffic!

@bhaugen The key thing w Scuttlebutt seems to be that it is a development community (based in 'projects') at least as much as it is a digital-social community. And to an extent, they do have a geography dynamic or context too (NZ?) even though globally distributed?
@elplatt @emi @Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin

@bhaugen Things in Scuttlebutt seem to resolve into 'the project leadership'. Benevolent dictators like so much FLOSS practice? I don't see anything there on evolutionary process. Just principles. I'm not disparaging, just saying I don't see the kind of process framing we're seeking.

@elplatt @emi @Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin

A quick straw poll on Illich

Is the perspective of Ivan Illich familiar to you, on 'tools' and the difference between 'industrial' and 'convivial' tools?

[ ] Not familiar at all
[ ] It vaguely rings a bell
[ ] I broadly get the pictur
[ ] It's very familiar to me

@write_as
I saw something - maybe a toot in Mastodon - about #write.as combined with #together.js, to create a clean, private chat app. But I can't find the page again! Can you help? It may have been a project in Glitch.

@emi
> slight existential panic
Yep. This seems to me natural bcos social.coop has been a slogan and an ethos and a loose distributed cultural formation, and is still attempting to become an organisation of some kind, which might warrant the description 'coop'?
@bhaugen @Matt_Noyes @michaelafisher @Zee @mattcropp @anaulin @johnkuti