Notices by Strange Attractor (strangeattractor@refactorcamp.org), page 13

@Elmkast

That's an interesting thread, though I'm not sure how it relates to the other things you've been talking about regarding dating.

I think it's wonderful that you've had such strong male friendships. That can be a source of strength to bring to a romantic relationship.

A lot of people in North American culture do not have strong friendships, particularly male friendships. It's something that is broken about our society.

@Elmkast

It may be the case that your expectations and skills are just fine...and you haven't found the right people yet.

Whatever processes you are using to find a pool of candidates from which to find someone to date may benefit from some adjustment.

@Elmkast

Also...it is good to negotiate for what you want, and to encourage the other person to negotiate for what they want.

If you want something non-standard eg. different frequency of spending time with each other than is expected from cultural context, it's something to discuss. If it's something the other person hasn't thought much about, it may take some time to explore the issue and figure out what they feel about it, and whether they are willing to experiment with it.

@Elmkast

The time right after the first makeout needs some extra care and time and attention. It can be an emotionally intense time. Follow-up the next day with phone call and or personal visit is important.

If you are withdrawing at that stage, you may be indicating that you won't pay enough attention, prioritize the relationship, or be responsive or available when the other person is going through something emotionally intense.

@Elmkast

So, I did not take a we-have-to-spend-all-time-together approach. It wasn't something I wanted or sought out. I did see some people around me doing that sort of thing - for some people it worked out really well. Different people have different styles, different things they want out of dating, different circumstances to work with. Pacing seemed to vary from couple to couple, as did the order in which they worked through various types of issues.

@Elmkast

I'm at a different stage of things, age late 30s and married, so my perspective is from a different vantage point.

I agree on friendship taking time to develop.

Spending all time together...in my early 20s for a while I saw the person I was dating about once a week, and talked to them on the phone 2 or 3 other times a week...my friends thought I was weird for not having daily contact.

I had other things to do! An intense academic program, volunteer work, other social life.

@Elmkast

"Best friend + physical intimacy" is not a bad first approximation, but as a model, it does not capture the extent of the compatibility requirements needed for a spouse.

@Elmkast

Those visions of the future change over time, and part of the commitment of marriage is to adapt to those changes together. To manage the changes respectfully, thoughtfully and not too much at the expense of either partner. To check in with each other about how the future is changing within their imagination and work out the details of how to make things better. Small things and large things.

@Elmkast

I think of marriage more like two people deciding to follow a path together. There are a lot of things that have to be compatible for that to work well. A lot of things that can lead to a situation where people split up, not because they don't like or respect each other, or get along day-to-day, but because they want to go in different directions.

You don't have to want exactly the same future as your partner, but you have to want something compatible with their vision of the future.

@Elmkast

In the early stages of a serious relationship or in a more casual relationship, it might feel closer to best friends plus physical intimacy.

There are ways that I have to be compatible with my spouse that are not required for a best friend type of relationship.

If my best friend has a different opinion about where the best geographical place to live is, that carries a different weight than if my spouse does. If my best friend wrecks their credit score, it doesn't directly affect me.

@lauraritchie

Yay! I see so many beautiful pictures of them on social media. Not so much on Mastodon, but on twitter there are many - you could see what they looked like in previous years.

https://twitter.com/search?f=images&vertical=default&q=cherry%20blossoms%20washington

I live in Canada, so peak bloom is later here. Projected for early May this year. https://www.sakurainhighpark.com/blog/2019/3/20/sakura-watch-march-20-2019-melting-snow-welcomes-the-first-day-of-spring

@Elmkast

So that too makes hanging out with spouse feel different than hanging out with best friend.

It's a matter of degree in some ways - I will hug my best friend, for example. But it's enough difference to change the interaction in subtle ways.

Other people have different preferences and different approaches to relationships, so spending time with their partner might feel more similar to best friends.

@Elmkast

Also, there are some people who can compartimentalize physical intimacy, but for me it is woven into my life more. It is not separate from the time my spouse and I spend together in general.

If you mean sex, then yes, that sort of has to be done by itself. Hard to multitask. But if by physical intimacy you also mean cuddling, hugs, kisses, holding hands, etc, then I'll end up doing some of those things interwoven with some other task when my spouse and I are spending time together.

@Elmkast

There are some similarities in how I relate to spouse and to best friend - for example, being able to talk about pretty much any topic, and in pretty much any state of mind (even when tired, or feeling something strongly, or not thinking clearly). They know me well enough, and have goodwill toward me, and are emotionally adept enough that that conversation can go well. It can be safe to be around them when I'm not at my best - I trust them with that.

@Elmkast

So there are issues that come up and tensions that arise because we are purposefully entangling our lives. It changes enough about the relationship that it makes it feel different than best friends to me.

@Elmkast

With my best friend being in different cities is fine.

Some people do manage to do long distance marriages, but it is really really hard.

A relationship more casual than marriage can work a bit better long distance. The physical intimacy then only happens when the people get together. I've had friends who have had long distance relationships temporarily, but all of them ended one way or another long term. Either they broke up or moved to be geographically closer to each other.

@Elmkast

The relationship I have with my spouse would probably fall under the description of "best friends + physical intimacy" though I wouldn't frame it that way if I was starting from how I think about relationships.

One thing that makes it different is that my spouse and I are way more entangled, in terms of what we do every day and what we decide about our future. One of my best friends has moved to 3 different cities in the last several years, and we kept in touch by phone.

@lauraritchie

If you're there at the right time of year, you could see the cherry blossoms
https://patch.com/district-columbia/washingtondc/new-peak-bloom-date-predicted-2019-dc-cherry-blossoms