Notices by kaniini (kaniini@mastodon.dereferenced.org), page 48

@feld

yes, actually, billing-accurate Netflow is quite expensive on most CMTS deployments in America, because big cable cheaped out on the gear.

this is why Comcast's data usage meter is nowhere near accurate, they have to do heavy sampling.

@feld

that is enabled by the fact that your average mobile carrier architecture involves transparent proxying all HTTP and DNS traffic.

it is pretty boring, really.

american wireline ISPs are largely *not* set up for that sort of thing, right now.

@phessler

AS29140 - some hosting company

AS205969, AS205970 - some sort of testbed for openbgpd

also, that is the worst take on RPKI i have ever seen.

RPKI certs are per-prefix because different contacts may have responsibility over policy for those prefixes. you don't really believe that everyone just goes around sharing private keys, do you?

i mean, i would expect "competent key hygiene" to be a fundamental understanding of an openbsd developer, with the claims of high security quality and so on.

i mean, if you do, it really explains a lot about why you believe that network policy management at ISPs in America is point and click.

@phessler

account management interface. lol.

routers are managed using CLI interfaces, there is no GUI.

imagine looking through 100k ACLs related to service degradation.

do you do this for a living or do you just comment on social media platforms?

don't bother replying, i blocked you.

@phessler

it's not about ACLs or routing policies, it's about the management nightmare

@Elizafox

actually major carriers have kind of evolved to a pseudo-mesh topology using mpls.

@bhtooefr

yep, i agree 100% with what you were saying. time-based zero-rating makes a lot of sense, and actually the satellite ISPs are doing this.

satellite ISPs obviously have a huge congestion management problem, so i think that proves your idea pretty well.

@scanlime

that song is wrong.

in reality, it's the worst time of the year, for basically *everyone*

@scanlime

that is pretty much my daily interaction with twitter, yes

@Gargron

for example, i received a 'block' salmon slap literally a few hours after my first toot ever, which had nothing interesting in it, and that 'block' salmon slap was sent by a follow-restricted account.

@bhtooefr

the lack of competition is indeed problematic, but that's largely because the capital required to enter a market is enormous, both in terms of paying for people to install the network, but also to get right-of-way access.

we looked into doing a residential fibre build out as a project, and determined that it would take at least a decade to make our money back from the initial build.

getting access to the utility poles and hiring a team to install the cabling was going to be around $8 million just for a couple of neighborhoods as a proof of concept.

@bhtooefr

i don't really think data buckets are the right approach from a business perspective, but in the context of that approach, i don't really have a problem with zero-rating (making some sites not count toward transfer quotas). congestion management is an unfortunate side effect of networks being opportunistic. i think non-discriminatory throttling makes more sense than data buckets for that, but hey, price gouging is fun i guess.

my largest concern is service degradation, and possibly being billed to have the service not degraded (e.g. pay extra to make netflix not rebuffer).

@bhtooefr

Netflow isn't DPI per se, it only inspects layer 4 traffic.

It could be done with transparent proxy approach or DNS, that is true, but DNS method would be easily defeated by using alternative DNS servers (possibly over VPN or the new DNS-over-TLS to protect against tampering).

That isn't my point though. Right now, at most ISPs, the network isn't really designed to facilitate this crap, instead the strategy is largely to degrade at the edge.

@Gargron my instance has received block messages (salmon slaps, it appears, not the activitypub version) from various follower-restricted accounts that had no other interaction.

@kellerfuchs @thegibson @iliana there have been quite a few mesh networks deployed with Alpine over the years, may want to ask around there for advice

@BrodyBr

yes, there has been a lot of people who have reported that. it's pretty messed up.

@Balor @tek

Three major things are needed:

* intentional degradation needs to be illegal (in central office or at edge)

* increased investment in ISP competition (fibre installed in areas where big cable dominates because the alternative is ADSL2)

* funding for small/cooperative ISPs which are really at the forefront of residential fibre to the premises networks (the local phone cooperative had gigabit fibre to the home for $70/month well before even google fibre. cooperatives work.)

I have no opinion about metering, increasing competition will shut that shit down, because all it takes is one ISP offering unmetered.

@tek @Balor

Yes, that's the next step.

First you degrade at the edge. Then you degrade at the central office.

Right now, Comcast squeezes content providers by taking TATA Communications as their only transit provider; this basically means your traffic is going halfway to India and back to reach providers that Comcast won't peer with or sell transit to.

It should be remembered that the Netflix-Comcast transit deal was arranged explicitly because Comcast wanted to avoid real regulations.

@Balor @tek

I think intentional service degradation (with ISPs going "what are you talking about, it's fine") is the more likely outcome than paying for enhanced access.

It's what they're doing right now, anyway. Look for that to step up. Once they do that, then *maybe* you will see packages allowing it to be undone on your account, but right now it's in the edge network.

We need Congress to do something about intentional service degradation in any net neutrality legislation they pass.