Notices by Jason_Dodd (jasondodd@mastodon.social), page 2

@perloid @clacke @liaizon Darn this thread for making me think of language over breakfast!!

It occurred to me that it must be an old thought by now but it really is how living things, change/evolve. Mistakes/mutations happen and the ones that look, sound, or function better stick. Sometimes the old version is replaced. Sometimes it's forked.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon What English needs is some good UX design :)

@perloid @liaizon @clacke There is also lapping when you rub two things with an abrasive to get really tight tolerances.

My take away here is that language in general is a beast, one that will not be contained.

@perloid @liaizon @clacke Here's a short example video of honing when it doesn't refer to sharpen. We would hone in until the inside diameter is a certain size within the specified tolerance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az-El3QHSlE

@perloid @liaizon @clacke The machinist in me is coming back. Honing doesn't always result in something being sharp. Honing is used as much to mean "smoothing".

@perloid @clacke @liaizon I should add that we tend to be proud of that fact.

I suppose the youth and poets are the hackers of language.

OG hackers.

@fitheach No. It's long since joined the landfill in the sky.

Oh wait, that's in the ground.

I want to say mine was branded with "Romper Room", but maybe not.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon I see. Perhaps that might be part of the difference of opinion. I use 'hone" instead of "dial", not "home".

I use "dial" to mean tuning something but "dial in" when referring to fine tuning. Likewise, I use "honing" to mean making sharp. And "honing in" to mean making sharp to some specification.

"Homing" or "home in" doesn't seem to fit as well to me.

@liaizon @perloid @clacke Especially cat scratching. Aren't beaks special skin cells like claws?

@liaizon @perloid @clacke Might well be. Similar to cats scratch and rodents gnawing.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon In a former life I was also an avid chess player. Was taught that masters must truly understand the principles of good chess. Grandmasters must also truly understand when to break those rules.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon No worries, I do and will always listen to every HPR episode.

And quite enjoy the ones on spoken language.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon These conversations in the hacker community always leads me to think about how we use computer languages and even hardware in ways "they" didn't intend and may not like.

:)

For example, violating best practices when speed is of the essence.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon Perhaps. But do you completely discount this explanation from Merriam-Webster?

" or it may have developed simply because of the influence of hone, with perhaps an underlying sense that "honing" figuratively involves a narrowing or sharpening of focus"

@perloid @clacke @liaizon Maybe it's because someone pointed out the mistake, which was met with ideas similar to, "Someone made the tools and rules. I appreciate the tools. However, I'll do as a see fit with the tools regardless of the rules. Thank you very much".

Followed up with a link to one of the HPR episodes discussing what it means to be a hacker.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon In a prior life I was a machinist. I used 'hone in' exactly like this. We'd have shaping processes with large stones. Would call it honing in when trying to use that process to get to a certain size.

It might well be that even that was a mistake. Nevertheless, hone in seemed more appropriate than home in to us.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon To be fair, English is bollocks. I keep hoping that some of these mistakes will turn into corrections that stick. For example, why have except and accept. Pick words that don't sound so much alike.

There are many such things. Maybe the fact that people make so many mistakes highlights the fact that English has tons of bugs that need to be fixed.

Where do you file bug reports for Standard English?

@perloid @clacke @liaizon I say all of the above living in the place credited for popularizing the term 'irrigardless'. Indiana.

Was growing increasingly irritated by how many people here use the term but got used to it. I couple months ago, an episode of 'grammar girl' tells me this area popularized this mistake! Woe is me.

@perloid @clacke @liaizon Perhaps "hone in" might make more sense in some cases. Is it being used as "dial in" would be? "Sharpen in", too.

I think it's perfectly fine as described in the link below. Why shouldn't this kind of evolution be ok even if started because someone mistook similar sounding words?

https://grammarist.com/eggcorns/home-in-hone-in/