Notices by Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz), page 99

@z428 ok, it's just that when I talked about how people actually use the web, you described a bunch of ways you see people use the web, many of which actually involve apps, not the web. Even the ones that can still be used via websites (eg FB), tend more to be used the way you described when people use them via an app on a mobile device. That's not the situation in which people mostly use adblockers.

@msh
> would make planned obsolescence less economically viable for them...

Yes, this is the goal. I'm totally open to suggestions about the most politically realistic ways of getting there, which will likely vary from country to country. We're just spitballing here ;)
@HerraBRE

@FarhanYusufzai what do you hope to accomplish by regurgitating these #LinuxFoundation #KeyMessages at me? All I can do is keep giving the obvious rebuttal that's already been given by #FSF folks, which I'm sure you're already aware of. Isn't that a bit of a waste of time for us both? Is there some larger point you're trying to make, or are you just trolling?

@havlatobias OK. Hopefully Trisquel 9 (based off 18.04) will be out sometime this year. They usually try to support two versions at a time, and 7 goes out of service with 14.04 in April.

> absolute positions of panel applets

Sorry, I don't know what this means.

@z428 yeah, I think the disconnect is expressed in the bit where you described the way you see people use the net. You do understand the different between the net and the web, right? Not being patronizing, genuine question. Because we will continue to talk past each other if this distinction isn't clear.

@LWFlouisa it depends if you're trying to replace #Discord as a chat *technology*, in which case I highly recommend #Mumble, or the hosted *social* aspect of Discord. The social aspect is much more complicated to replace, due to things like #NetworkEffect.
@z428 @pootz

@z428 cool idea. Switching.social could be one possible data source for a "find ethical replacements" browser plug-in.
@switchingsocial @alcinnz @pootz

@stevenroose yeah I was thinking about #ElementaryOS. It's a shame there isn't a libre version on the #FSF list. I might install it to have a play around, but I wouldn't use it day-to-day. Maybe I could try running #Pantheon on top of vanilla #Debian?

@HerraBRE
Also, how is paying out of general taxation *not*
> the buck getting passed to the people

???

@LibertyPaulM That way, to take one example, people who buy local and organic food are effectively getting those purchases partially subsidized from the taxes people pay on imported and industrial food products that create more carbon emissions. Increased sales allows local, organic food to get cheaper, and makes imported and industrial food prices go up to reflect their real environmental costs. That's just in food, the same principle applies across the whole economy.
@HerraBRE

@LibertyPaulM I've seen a suggestion that rather than going to government, which risks creating a perverse incentive because they have more money when there is more pollution, revenue collected from pollution taxes should go into a pool to fund a #CitizensDividend or #UBI.
@HerraBRE

@LibertyPaulM I've seen a suggestion that rather than going to government, which risks creating a perverse incentive becaus they have more money when there is more pollution, revenue collected from pollution taxes should go into a pool to fund a #CitizensDividend or #UBI.
@HerraBRE

@HerraBRE fair enough. I've done some environmental science papers at undergrad level, and I completed a #Permaculture Design Certificate course, so I'm not a total noob in these discussions. Happy to read any relevant articles you care to share on the topic, if you want to help bring me up to speed, but please pitch them appropriately :)

@HerraBRE
> I fundamentally disagree with the whole us vs. them attitude lefties have towards businesses.

This is a strawman. I have an incredibly positive attitude towards ecologically responsible businesses, as you can see in a number of my posts in this discussion. It's not about "us vs. them", it's about responsible businesses vs. the irresponsible businesses that get invisible subsidies from making the public pay to clean up their mess, at the expense of the ones who do the right thing.

@HerraBRE a huge amount of packaging waste can be avoided just with smarter design. In China, an appliance like a kettle arrives in a plastic bag, with polystyrene spacers, in a cardboard box. In Aotearoa (NZ) the only part of that you get with the same kettle is the cardboard box, with some cardboard spacers. If the retailers had to take the waste back, and the manufacturer had to take it from them, most of it would just never get made. Which is *exactly* what we need to happen.

@HerraBRE for example, a huge amount of the disposable plastic that gets used could be replaced with paper packaging made from recycled paper/ cardboard/ wood waste. Then it could be collected for composting, and neither the manufacturer or retailer would have to accept it back. Then there are concepts like compostable packaging made by mycelium that need investment:
https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/101409471052447738

@HerraBRE the only reason to play the 'pity the poor' card here, presuming you're not a neoliberal trying to defend corporate profits (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt ;), is that you think eco-friendly packaging, repairable goods etc have to cost more than eco-destructive, disposable ones. That's only true until these things start to get done at scale, with serious investment, just as with #RenewableEnergy tech.

@HerraBRE I totally support a move (back) to a progressive tax system. I've been fighting a rearguard action against the 1980s neoliberal coup for most of my life. But this is orthogonal to what I'm proposing, because as I've said, I don't think the public should be paying to deal with waste problems that profit-making businesses create. Business should pay those costs, and if they pass those costs onto customers, good! That just gives eco-friendly businesses a leg up that they desperately need.

@z428 you seem to be totally ignoring the way people actually use the web. There's no way I can help to fund every website I might one day want to visit. When I click on a result in a search engine, I have no idea what the business model of that site is. I do know that if I don't have my AdBlocker and #NoScript turned on a) my browser might crash, and b) my privacy might be invaded. Using an AdBlocker is just basic security, like using an Antivirus on Windows.
@pootz

@z428 this:
https://social.tchncs.de/@z428/101405603436067198

... is guilt-tripping. If the cap fits ...
@pootz