Notices by Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz), page 145

Here's an example of a web-based #Git UI being used to make a legitimate contribution by someone who isn't a software engineer, and may not have been able to contribute using the Git CLI:
https://github.com/lulzlabs/AirChat/pull/19

The other day on #RadioNZ, a couple of panelists got into a detailed discussion about education policy, and Katherine Ryan cut them off, telling them they were getting distracted from "politics". This sums up exactly what's going wrong with political reporting in NZ, it's become about reporting on politicians, not reporting on *policy*. What used to be sneered as by serious newsrooms as "tabloid" scandal-mongering is now all the political news we get on mainstream channels. #FakeNews much?

@nat a classic example of this is the nonsense of expecting market competition to improve the way universities are run. People buy bread every week. If one brand is bad, or it isn't fresh as the place they bought it, they can buy it somewhere different next week. But we only "buy" a uni degree *once*. If the course is bad, too bad, you're stuck with paying the fees anyway (or dropping out). Making unis compete just wastes millions of $ of their funding on marketing:
https://invidio.us/watch?v=wqv7uzd7N0c

Reading this #PropPublica article about the strategic defunding of the #IRS by the US Republican Party makes me wonder about what funding for the #IRD, the NZ equivalent, has been like under 9 years of government by a strongly pro-corporate and anti-tax National party:
https://www.propublica.org/article/how-the-irs-was-gutted

@z428
> I actually do like #movim a lot, but overally don't care about the protocol that much

Exactly my point ;-)
@charlag @lightone

@z428 @charlag @lightone there are people swimming against the tide trying to build social network web apps on XMPP (eg Movim), when I suspect it would be better to do the opposite, build chat apps for the web using #Matrix, #Zot, or #ActivityPup, and find ways to bridge between those and native XMPP apps

@z428 @charlag @lightone no, I think the fediverse, and especially PeerTube, shows that federation can work. It remains true that no single silo can compete with the network effect of the datafarms. I suspect that the problem is in the XMPP tech itself. I read somewhere that it speaks XML in a age of JSON, for example.

@z428 @charlag @lightone WhatsApp could be seen as an example of "embrace, extend, extinguish", as Google Talk embracing XMPP appears to have been. But it could also have been something to do with the FB acquisition, it even just the #Signal syndrome, devs just deciding that doing both secure *and* federated is just too hard.

@phoe https://mastodon.nzoss.nz/@strypey/101226662790651595

@z428 @stevenroose @charlag @lightone
People expect more from chat apps than they did in the days of IM apps. They expect voice and video to work smoothly, they expect to be able to drop in photos, videos, and other files for effortless sharing. When i can reliably do these things with every XMPP user, regardless of what client they choose, with the same quality of UX as Wire does right now, then it might have a chance of taking off, and I look forward to that day.

@z428 Email gets more usage than XMPP because of webmail. Why is nobody Integrating XMPP into webmail clients like RoundCube or Rain Loops as GMail did? People have been trying and failing to develop web clients for XMPP for more than a decade. There are reasons the Matrix folks don't use XMPP, and again, it's not for lack of trying.
@stevenroose @charlag @lightone

Email gets more usage than XMPP because of webmail. Why is nobody Integrating XMPP into webmail clients like RoundCube or Rain Loops as GMail did? People have been trying and failing to develop web clients for XMPP for more than a decade. There are reasons the Matrix folks don't use XMPP, and again, it's not for lack of trying.

@jcbrand fair cop, but it's not for lack of trying. I had more interaction in my first year on the #Quitter-era #fediverse than I've ever managed to get on the XMPP-verse, despite more than a decade of encouraging people to use it.

Hi @nolan , thanks for the 'delete and redraft' feature, I really need that at times. But I seem to be getting some bugs with it. The redrafted post doesn't seem to appear as a reply as it ought to, and clicking reply on it doesn't include the @mentions in the new reply.

@z428
the question nobody promoting #XMPP apps seems to ask is, does it do anything users need? As I said, I've been using XMPP since it was still Jabber. I still install XMPP apps on my laptop from time to time, and I have Conversations on my mobile, it's a nice UI. But do I use them? Almost never.
@stevenroose @charlag @lightone

@z428 the question nobody promoting #XMPP apps seems to ask is, does it do anything users need? As I said, I've been using XMPP since it was still Jabber. I still install XMPP apps on my laptop from time to time, and I have Conversations on my mobile, it's a nice UI. But do I use them? Almost never.
vibe@stevenroose@fosstodon.org @charlag @lightone

@z428 the question nobody promoting #XMPP apps seems to ask is, does it do anything users need? As I said, I've been using XMPP since it was still Jabber. I still install XMPP apps on my laptop from time to time, and I have Conversations on my mobile, it's a nice UI. But do I use them? Almost never.
Until such time as every XMPP client does reliable vibe@stevenroose@fosstodon.org @charlag @lightone

Oh you're definitely confused @stevenroose ;-) I'm all for *using* federated protocols. My point is that just trying to guilt trip users into making do with ill-considered or outdated UX, on the basis of what protocols are being used on the backend, clearly doesn't work.
@z428 @charlag @lightone

@funkwhale @switchingsocial @musicman great stuff!